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My tacoma has "Crawl control". Basically it has different settings for different terrain and it can be set to 1,2,3,4, or 5mph. It detects slip in all the wheels and provides power accordingly. It definitely would work if trying to pull a boat out from a beach, dirt, or other terrain. Otherwise 2wd or 4wd is enough for any ramp that I've seen. Its cool. There's videos on youtube of people purposely getting the truck stuck in sand and using crawl control to get out of impossible situations.
They seem to be pretty popular towing vehicles down here in south Florida. Never seen one get stuck same with wranglers even though the wranglers are often well over their 3500lb tow limit, that danger will come on the road - not at the boat ramp. I sometimes wonder why everyone doesn’t get it, but I guess if you’re towing an RV and never go off-road, 2 Wheel Drive usually has better gas mileage and on many vehicles will actually achieve a higher tow rating than the four-wheel-drive. Not sure how that works, but it’s the case on several vehicles. Does anyone know why that is? My guess would be the added weight of the four-wheel-drive system simply reduces the weight available for towing. Another possibility is overheating, Engine works harder in 4wd???
They seem to be pretty popular towing vehicles down here in south Florida. Never seen one get stuck same with wranglers even though the wranglers are often well over their 3500lb tow limit, that danger will come on the road - not at the boat ramp. I sometimes wonder why everyone doesn’t get it, but I guess if you’re towing an RV and never go off-road, 2 Wheel Drive usually has better gas mileage and on many vehicles will actually achieve a higher tow rating than the four-wheel-drive. Not sure how that works, but it’s the case on several vehicles. Does anyone know why that is? My guess would be the added weight of the four-wheel-drive system simply reduces the weight available for towing. Another possibility is overheating, Engine works harder in 4wd???
Hit the nail on the head. Each axle of a given configuration of a given vehicle has a certain amount of weight it can carry. Adding 4wd system increases weight, and that has to come out of the rating somewhere. Often it's in tow capacity and payload.
Overheating is less of an issue, however still a consideration. If you think about it from an energy perspective, it takes x amount of energy to move y amount of weight up a hill. The radiator is sized to remove a certain amount of heat energy from the machine and transfer it to the air around the machine. If you remove some weight from the vehicle, but keep the radiator the same size, you can add that weight back into the tow rating.
Large sweeping generalities here, skipping LOTS of specifics, but the big picture ideas are the same.
The marine I store my boat has dirt roads and from time to time I drop it in 4low just to get the transfer case moving. Living in Georgia rarely need 4x4 but with the occasional snow apocalypse I like make sure its working.
That being said getting close to 100,000 miles so I'll need transfer case service soon.
The marine I store my boat has dirt roads and from time to time I drop it in 4low just to get the transfer case moving. Living in Georgia rarely need 4x4 but with the occasional snow apocalypse I like make sure its working.
That being said getting close to 100,000 miles so I'll need transfer case service soon.
be glad you don't own an Audi. Q7 requires Tcase Fluid change every 50k miles at $98/qt for fluid. have to drop the crossmember to change it too. Stupid German Engineers!
I think @swatski used to launch at a ramp in Missouri that required the Land Cruiser Crawl Control to retrieve his AR240. Was super steep gravel ramp with a turn in the middle or something like that. It was nuts.
Hit the nail on the head. Each axle of a given configuration of a given vehicle has a certain amount of weight it can carry. Adding 4wd system increases weight, and that has to come out of the rating somewhere. Often it's in tow capacity and payload.
Overheating is less of an issue, however still a consideration. If you think about it from an energy perspective, it takes x amount of energy to move y amount of weight up a hill. The radiator is sized to remove a certain amount of heat energy from the machine and transfer it to the air around the machine. If you remove some weight from the vehicle, but keep the radiator the same size, you can add that weight back into the tow rating.
Large sweeping generalities here, skipping LOTS of specifics, but the big picture ideas are the same.
The issue is usually the 4x4 system adds weight that the GCWR doesn't have extra room for. Always found it off that 4x4 takes a bite out of tow rating, but going up in trims that adds features doesn't. The fully loaded model of a vehicle like a truck or suv can weight a couple hundred pounds more than the base model, but it doesn't cha get the tow rating. Obviously not mad about it, but its weird that 200 pounds of 4x4 equipment changes it but 400 pounds of luxuries and speakers and extra plush carpet doesnt.
I love this conversation, and how it is very geographically specific. As 4x4 is not the norm like it is up here in MN.
When we roll into a (used to roll into a lot full of trucks, pre covid) All trucks, for the most part, are ordered as 4x4 standard, and 2wd are special order. So when we see a yahoo on a landing spinning his wet tires, we tend to laugh and think "rookie"
I at least flip into auto 4 out of sheer habit, as I don't want to be "that guy" No sense in owning something so easy to use, if you don't use it. It's not like the old days of getting out and locking hubs. Flip the switch and save the tires.
The issue is usually the 4x4 system adds weight that the GCWR doesn't have extra room for. Always found it off that 4x4 takes a bite out of tow rating, but going up in trims that adds features doesn't. The fully loaded model of a vehicle like a truck or suv can weight a couple hundred pounds more than the base model, but it doesn't cha geist the tow rating. Obviously not mad about it, but its weird that 200 pounds of 4x4 equipment changes it but 400 pounds of luxuries and speakers and extra plush carpet doesnt.
I think it's one of those things that the one time you don't have it, and you need it, you're hosed. If your truck slips down a ramp into salt.or brackish water, it's pretty much totalled if water intrudes. Much better to have it and not need it I think.
If you’re only on lakes with good ramps - you can get away with it, especially on smaller boats. If you are using different ramps all over the place in saltwater (with changing tides) and variations in ramp quality- you absolutely need a 4wd. The day will come when the conditions will scare you. Best case another truck pulls you out or you have 4 guys on the tounge and it comes out. Worst case - blip blip blip.
If you’re only on lakes with good ramps - you can get away with it, especially on smaller boats. If you are using different ramps all over the place in saltwater (with changing tides) and variations in ramp quality- you absolutely need a 4wd. The day will come when the conditions will scare you. Best case another truck pulls you out or you have 4 guys on the tounge and it comes out. Worst case - blip blip blip.
I launch at multiple different ramps at different tides in salt. I can't remember one time needing to turn on the 4WD. Like I mentioned before tires are more important than 4WD (for Ramps) My tires are pushing 3 years now and I've noted a tiny bit of slip recently. Though slowing down my exit stops this completely.
@adrianp89
Think low tide, tires on the wet slippery part of the ramp that's usually under water that has growth on it...
NEW tires vs old tires, both have compromised grip due to the surface of the ramp. 4WD will keep your vehicle from sliding back in and going for a swim.
I launch at multiple different ramps at different tides in salt. I can't remember one time needing to turn on the 4WD. Like I mentioned before tires are more important than 4WD (for Ramps) My tires are pushing 3 years now and I've noted a tiny bit of slip recently. Though slowing down my exit stops this completely.
I get where you are coming from, but you can find literally hundreds if not thousands of YouTube videos of trucks slipping on boat ramps in South Florida. Many are unable to pull their boat out without assistance. 9 out of 10 of those trucks/suvs in all of those videos are 2wd. Yes, it may be misleading because many 2wd trucks launch and recover everyday without issue on all those same ramps, but suggesting that it’s not really necessary might not be the best advice IMO. For anyone in the market for a tow vehicle- don’t take my word for it, pull up a chair at a slippery ramp on low tide and watch the trucks that struggle…90% will have one thing in common…2wd.
I get where you are coming from, but you can find literally hundreds if not thousands of YouTube videos of trucks slipping on boat ramps in South Florida. Many are unable to pull their boat out without assistance. 9 out of 10 of those trucks/suvs in all of those videos are 2wd. Yes, it may be misleading because many 2wd trucks launch and recover everyday without issue on all those same ramps, but suggesting that it’s not really necessary might not be the best advice IMO. For anyone in the market for a tow vehicle- don’t take my word for it, pull up a chair at a slippery ramp on low tide and watch the trucks that struggle…90% will have one thing in common…2wd.
@tim h I launch multiple times per week. It isn't always low tide but good tires grip with no problem on slippery ramps that I can't even walk down without slipping.
If shopping for new, absolutely spend the extra few grand and go 4WD...if you can. At the end of the day I will take 4WD and good tires. In a hot market like it is now, I wouldn't stress finding a 4WD truck if it's proving to be difficult and you can find exactly what you want with 2WD and don't go trade your vehicle because you think 2WD isn't sufficient.... just get your self the right tires.
A lot will depend on the truck too. A 2wd extended cab Tacoma vs a 2wd diesel f350 crew cab is gonna have a very different amount of traction on the rear wheels from weight. They're also going to be sprung differently, put power down differently, etc. Anyone who has driven a midsized truck or suv lately will be familiar with the total lack of low end torque as they have all gone over.to vvt motors that don't make much power until higher revs. That's not ideal for not spinning the tires and getting stuck. A lot of the more modern turbo engines basically are power on/off switches, they have low end torque, but it often comes on suddenly with little ability to moderate it, again, not ideal.
Personally, it's one of those right tool for the job things. Some things you need an impact gun and not a ratchet for. Wrong tool leads to issues. 2wd never has the advantage over 4wd, if you just want a truck or suv to drive around in 2wd is fine. But if you're gonna use it for more than daily driving or maybe towing race cars, 4wd is the answer. Like insurance, it doesn't matter until you need it.
Anyone who has driven a midsized truck or suv lately will be familiar with the total lack of low end torque as they have all gone over.to vvt motors that don't make much power until higher revs.
Wifes '10 Traverse was a FWD only vehicle. Had the 3.6VVT engine in it. Would absolutely ROAST the front tires, almost on demand. Heavy vehicle, with a high stall convertor (by factory standards) and a power band that ramps quickly is an absolute disaster for traction. We stopped driving it in the snow/rain if we could because it was so bad on that front.
We did tow the boat with it a few times, and it honestly wasn't bad at our local ramps. Front tires stayed on mostly dry land, and the ramps are concrete with deep "ridges" across for good traction. There are a couple ramps locally I wouldn't try though (slimy with growth, or gravel).
This is the driver for 4wd for me. I'm too much of a Boy Scout Motto driven person to not get it. The penalty in maintenance, tow rating, and overall efficiency is small compared to total cost of ownership. Different strokes for different folks though, spend your nickels (used to be pennies, damn inflation) how you like them.
Don't want to deflate on a hard surface. deflation increases surface area, and lowers contact pressure. You want high contact pressure on hard surfaces. Taller/skinnier/fully inflated tires will be your best bet on a wet ramp.
Deflate for flotation on loose surfaces or for mechanical keying (deform the tires around a rock edge for grip) on obstacles.
Wifes '10 Traverse was a FWD only vehicle. Had the 3.6VVT engine in it. Would absolutely ROAST the front tires, almost on demand. Heavy vehicle, with a high stall convertor (by factory standards) and a power band that ramps quickly is an absolute disaster for traction. We stopped driving it in the snow/rain if we could because it was so bad on that front.
We did tow the boat with it a few times, and it honestly wasn't bad at our local ramps. Front tires stayed on mostly dry land, and the ramps are concrete with deep "ridges" across for good traction. There are a couple ramps locally I wouldn't try though (slimy with growth, or gravel).
This is the driver for 4wd for me. I'm too much of a Boy Scout Motto driven person to not get it. The penalty in maintenance, tow rating, and overall efficiency is small compared to total cost of ownership. Different strokes for different folks though, spend your nickels (used to be pennies, damn inflation) how you like them.
I had those several times as rentals. They were ridiculous and sort of fun because as you said, they would light up the front end at will. They were also either slow as hell, or burning out. AWD models actually drove pretty well, especially newer ones.
Honestly, a supercharged or turbocharged version of that motor would probably be pretty fun in an equinox or blazer.
Don't want to deflate on a hard surface. deflation increases surface area, and lowers contact pressure. You want high contact pressure on hard surfaces. Taller/skinnier/fully inflated tires will be your best bet on a wet ramp.
Deflate for flotation on loose surfaces or for mechanical keying (deform the tires around a rock edge for grip) on obstacles.
I agree that deflation increases contact area, critical to improve traction on a slippery surface like a boat ramp. I don't follow the relation between contact pressure and PSI. Add some weight to the truck bed to increase the contact pressure and lower your PSI by 1/3-2/3
