DO NOT BUY YAMAHA FSH

[Dixie Highway]

There have been well documented cases of “ringing” sounds coming from a pump run out of the water, seems it’s usually from oxidation in the pump liner building up and contacting the impeller. I would definitely check into that as well as completing the recommended 100 hour maintenance mentioned above.

 

[Beachbummer]

Yes, most common ringing noise is pump liner swelling. But pumps have self destructed before too.

 

[Neutron]

I had claimed insurance at first because I believed I had hit something (sucked something into the pump). They had their engineers look into it and stated that the cause was from the impeller bolt coming off. I could be wrong but I believe lock tight should have been used on that bolt which there was none. I did not view the compression test myself but when I turned the boat in it did run (rough at that). If there is a reasonable way to fix the boat then I am all for it but I find it hard to believe that a boat with 80 hours on it can be totaled without some fault. In this case the dealer as well as insurance states it’s a manufacturing issue.

Realistically lock tight shouldn't be needed because the rotation in theory should keep tightening pressure on the nut.
Seems odd that the nut would come off. Thats a head scratcher.
Stripped threads from the factory? Maybe
I have seen pump bearings grenade plenty from poor maintenance or water intrusion, or bent shaft from damaged prop, etc..

 

[swatski]

Wow, that sucks. I would have expected the motor to not do that! I hope the OP is not on the same boat. Maybe we need a weaker link between the pump and the motor. If the motor is OK is not a bad repair to the pump components, but if the motor is broke, it gets very expensive very soon.

You got that right.

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[Scottie]

I'm in the middle of a full pump rebuild on both sides. Brand new parts, including shafts and everything attached to them (housings too), various different grease/lubes, and miscellaneous tools, runs right about $1600. It's an easy enough job to do yourself if you're mechanically inclined, assuming the engine isn't trashed. If we're talking about the rear nut, under the cone, it is not reverse threaded, just FYI. Given its orientation, it shouldn't be. I don't know how in the world it would come loose on its own, but it would probably be bad indeed if it did. In my case, the bearing behind it exploded. The nut never came off, despite the apparent full assault from behind it. In the pic below, the nut and washer are supposed to be two separate pieces, and the washer is supposed to be flat.

 

[swatski]

The missing nut is a puzzler... But I don't know how it would prevent water intrusion, it usually starts with water intrusion due to o-ring failing and bearing/shaft rattle (not the metallic sound of the wear ring liner binding).

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[Scottie]

The missing nut is a puzzler... But I don't know how it would prevent water intrusion, it usually starts with water intrusion due to o-ring failing and bearing/shaft rattle (not the metallic sound of the wear ring liner binding).

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Agree. I don't think it would affect water intrusion, but if it did come off, it would only take one trip off the inside of the cone and back into the bearing to cause serious carnage at those rpms.

 

[swatski]

There have been well documented cases of “ringing” sounds coming from a pump run out of the water, seems it’s usually from oxidation in the pump liner building up and contacting the impeller. I would definitely check into that as well as completing the recommended 100 hour maintenance mentioned above.

You are correct but that is (most likely) "true, true, unrelated" as far as the OP problem with the main bearing.

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[swatski]

They had their engineers look into it and stated that the cause was from the impeller bolt coming off.

This could be the key statement. I would as k the insurance "experts" to proovide pictures/documentation of their findings. Likely they are not Yamaha jet boat techs and don;t know shit about how those pumps work, but I could be wrong.
Was there any evidence of water intrusion such as milky cone grease (not translucent) at the time of discovery?
If there was no water intrusion, it would be hard to argue this is anything else but a manufacturing defect of some kind, that nut has no locktite or torque value as a maintenance item assigned to it, it should not be effected by any maintenance action.

If there was evidence of water intrusion at the time the cone was taken off - then all bets are off, the nut could have come of as a result of bearing damage, I suppose. In that case whoever was doing the preventative maintenance could be deemed responsible, at least in part. Hope it'd be the dealer? (the question there would be if the o-ring was replaced with a new one? and was it mounted properly - not pinched or otherwise damaged?)

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[Ratket]

Sorry just read through this, I don’t have the technical knowledge of most on this site so my input in that aspect is null and void. But that boat in a 2019 model is under 30k. After 3 years you should not still owe 30k and if you do, all I can say is I do feel sorry for you. Definitely get it looked at by a different shop, I don’t see a single motor with all the atchments of what could of been damaged costing more than 12-15k on the high side. If the 2016 uses the 2 piece pump housing “ I’ve heard the can swell” definitely upgrade to a single piece housing. If you provide the guys on here as much information as possible I am sure they can help get you sorted and save you a ton of money. Keep us posted.

 

[Arcadyus]

Yes. That is the beginning. It will get louder and ultimately ruin the boat. Do not start it again. Most likely your pump housing is already ruined so you are looking at a couple grand. If you continue to run the boat it will ultimately be totaled.

Dude WTF!!! This is crazy.

 

[swatski]

Did you happen to notice a rattle sound while at idle? I’ve been noticing a metal rattle sound, but only at idle. At higher rpm’s it goes away. Just wondering if this could be a sign of impending failure? I need to take my FSH190 in to have the dealer look at it. I have 150hrs and never knew about the “impeller duct” problem or preventative maintenance on it till seeing this thread.

Many 190s have been reported to vibrate at high idle, there is usually a small range of RPM around 2,000 (?) where it is apparent. I believe most of it is due to hitting the wear ring and is not a huge problem unless the wear ring shows spots that are swollen and filed by the impeller. That may be galvanic corrosion of the wear ring liner - time to replace the wear ring or switch to one with delrin (plastic) inserts.

If you are worried, I would just pull the pump and the impeller (it's a 15min job) which comes out as one piece - shaft/impeller/stator segment ("impeller duct")/cone and check if the shaft/impeller are turning smoothly with no vibration, it should be as smooth as a well greased wheel hub.
If you are not sure, pull the cone to inspect the bearing - any water intrusion will be obvious w/the OEM grease, the water makes it not-translucent and there is some water beads looking like sweat. If that's the case, replacing grease and the o-ring is in order.
This post shows the steps to pull the pump:

https://jetboaters.net/threads/lucky-13-l13-anti-cavitation-cone-install-2016-ar240.12099/

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[seanmclean]

That sucks! Very sorry, and I can sympathize! - dealing with Yamaha customer service, not always a pleasant experience indeed.

But your statement is, unfortunately, incorrect.

Every 100 hours or 12 months, whichever comes first:
(5 and 6)
View attachment 100675

Leaky O-ring and water intrusion in the pump (main) bearing is a know issue, and a part of the PM schedule.

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I think that this may not be common knowledge. I've never seen this mentioned around here before, most folks are just intimate that the only maintenance required for these boats is oil and plugs on an annual basis. Most of the checkmarks in the service manual are just to 'check' i.e., look at it and make sure its not ostensibly broken.

Is that photo from the service manual? Guess I might have to bite the bullet and buy one of those.

 

[Ilmmct]

@Pcity1019 sorry this happened to you. There are some really great posts to help you out of this quagmire:

Boat Manufacturer and Servicer Path:
-Are you the original owner and can confirm the prior service trips (e.g. 10-hour or an early 100-hour) to an authorized Yamaha service center? If you are not the original purchaser an authorized service center will have a vehicle service history.
-When did the YES Warranty period expire?
-Are you sure you’ve obtained access to Yamaha Sport Boat manufacturing executives? Or are your escalation contacts with staff in the Customer Support or YES Warranty Servicing organization?
-Have you read the terms of the YES Warranty and specifically the exclusion sections? Make sure you have the YES document from 2016.
-Continue the damage and repair cost analysis. This may provide evidence of manufacturing defect or prior improper servicer care.

Marine Insurance Path:
-You received your first “No” from an insurance company. Your work is just starting then.
-Have you read the terms of the Policy?
-Continue the damage and repair cost analysis. This may provide evidence that the damage occurred while the boat was under operation.

 

[the MfM]

Damn, every time I read one of these threads there’s a new way that I’d never heard of to grenade a boat... sorry it happened to you OP.


I’d be looking hard for a used PWC. Should be able to swap most of the affected parts. and still have a bunch of stuff from the donor ski to sell on eBay.

 

[BigN8]

@Pcity1019 I'm not an attorney but have been involved in some legal situations. A word of advice would be to stop typing on this forum about this. Everything you write could potentially be used against you. I'm sure if you asked your attorney about this he would echo my advice.

 

[Bruce]

A major contributor to the cost is that Yamaha does not sell complete 1.8 engines. Dealers have to order partially assembled engines and complete them at dealer billing rates.

Based on the age of your boat and the low pressure on two cylinders I am wondering if you have two issues;

1. A stretched or failed timing chain https://jetboaters.net/threads/have-you-had-a-1-8-timing-chain-failure-was-it-in-warranty-and-how-has-yamaha-handled-it.10799/

2. The rear bearing failure.

At the young age and low hours I would hope that Yamaha would cover the repair and I would be contacting Yamaha corporate to ask for that.

If Yamaha does not come through then swapping the engine and compatible parts from a ski is likely the least expensive path to rebuilding with Yamaha parts. Otherwise I believe a SBT 1.8 is around $4K. Add another $1K for the pump and you would be back on the water.

 

[swatski]

I think that this may not be common knowledge. I've never seen this mentioned around here before, most folks are just intimate that the only maintenance required for these boats is oil and plugs on an annual basis. Most of the checkmarks in the service manual are just to 'check' i.e., look at it and make sure its not ostensibly broken.

Is that photo from the service manual? Guess I might have to bite the bullet and buy one of those.

This thread addresses most of the issues there, but I agree this has not been “broadcast” enough!

In my case it so happens I take the cones off almost every year.
After the FSH report I think it will be a Fall PM schedule item for sure. I'll probably swap the o-rings at the time, those are not expensive. I'm tempted to switch to slurry, but IDK.

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[swatski]

@Pcity1019 I'm not an attorney but have been involved in some legal situations. A word of advice would be to stop typing on this forum about this. Everything you write could potentially be used against you. I'm sure if you asked your attorney about this he would echo my advice.

Sorry, but I completely disagree.
Yes, he can do harm to the case disclosing too much here, and yes, it can be used against him.
But it’s balanced by the fact he can acquire info out of this forum NOT available on the outside, possibly a winning proposition if he is otherwise stuck at the mercy of what he is told by the insurance adjusters and the dealer ( oh - Yamaha customer service, too - lol). Not a good position to be in. Can be much improved with knowledge and experience shared here.

The insurance/dealer/Yamaha customer service will not steer him in the right direction and his lawyers likely know nothing about jet boats.

Just my .02

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[Beachbummer]

Legal world makes no sense. The advice he gets here is invaluable, but if his posts are use against him they will cause trouble too.