EV discussion - hate or love?

[2kwik4u]

Here it is. 87mi of range in a PHEV pickup. Shame it'll never make it to the US.

Nissan Just Unveiled a Plug-In Hybrid Frontier Pickup

Based on the Chinese Dongfeng Z9 pickup, the Frontier Pro Plug-In is likely different from the PHEV pickup Nissan has planned for North America.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[BlkGS]

Here it is. 87mi of range in a PHEV pickup. Shame it'll never make it to the US.

Nissan Just Unveiled a Plug-In Hybrid Frontier Pickup

Based on the Chinese Dongfeng Z9 pickup, the Frontier Pro Plug-In is likely different from the PHEV pickup Nissan has planned for North America.

www.caranddriver.com

To be fair, it's a Chinese truck and Chinese manufacturers like to play very fast and loose with specs. Ever bought a 10k lumens light on Amazon from one of them? Lol. They sell 50,000 lumen LED headlight bulbs too, which are likely more like 2500 lumens in the real world after their turn on spike.

 

[BigN8]

Bezos-backed Slate Auto unveils affordable EV truck

One outlet has called it the "anti-Tesla," referring to its simple, minimalist stature.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[BlkGS]

150 miles of range, no power windows, just a cheap truck from a nobody?

Nice thought in principle, but I don't see the point vs spending $20k on a used Tacoma.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

150 miles of range, no power windows, just a cheap truck from a nobody?

Nice thought in principle, but I don't see the point vs spending $20k on a used Tacoma.

There is no winning. I've seen for years people bitch about the price of new trucks, and how big they are, and how techy there. I've seen hundreds of people ask for a cheap no thrills basic work truck for cheap. They are delivering that. If the thing is reliable, they will put up Tesla #s quickly.

 

[BlkGS]

There is no winning. I've seen for years people bitch about the price of new trucks, and how big they are, and how techy there. I've seen hundreds of people ask for a cheap no thrills basic work truck for cheap. They are delivering that. If the thing is reliable, they will put up Tesla #s quickly.

I agree that it's exactly what everyone claims they want. But so is the Toyota GT86, and yet nobody buys it.

You can get a new Tacoma for 28k or a new Maverick for 25k. If you don't qualify for the tax credit this is 28k and seats 2. That's in the same price range as a 4 seater Santa Cruz that's a lot nicer. Or a pretty decent maverick. Or spitting difference of a much more capable full size regular cab.

Also, 150 miles of best case range is nothing. Throw some cold in, put something in the bed, or god forbid you have to tow something... Woof. That said, I could see this being used as a local delivery vehicle. Auto parts store making local deliveries, etc would be places that'd be great uses for this.

 

[Bluewater272]

I thought it seemed like a cool concept if the base vehicle was worth it, but at 150miles and 2WD, it's not.

 

[2kwik4u]

I thought it seemed like a cool concept if the base vehicle was worth it, but at 150miles and 2WD, it's not.

The 2wd kills it for me, but otherwise I like the premise.

This feels like a SoCal minitruck waiting to happen. As the previous owner and enthusiast of the S10 market back in the late 90's, early '00's, this feels VERY similar to the bare bones pickup that crowd would buy and then customize to the moon. Some went "pro touring" with big motor and suspension mods, others went drag racing, others went towards the "lowrider" look. Airbagged suspension, super low ride heights, wild paint (wraps now), absurd interior mods......all started on that 4cyl/5spd reg cab short bed chassis. I bought my '00 S10 on Black Friday in '99. Exact same formula, and it cost $12k at the time. That $12k then is $23.5k now, so, honestly, the pricing is right in line as well. That S10 had manual windows and locks, A/C and a CD player. I also paid a small premium for the ZQ8 sport suspension setup. Otherwise it was about as basic as it gets, almost a direct analog to the slate.

I'm really excited to see if this takes off or flops. Lots of interesting concepts floating around. I'm gonna sit on the "glass half full" side this time.

 

[BlkGS]

The 2wd kills it for me, but otherwise I like the premise.

This feels like a SoCal minitruck waiting to happen. As the previous owner and enthusiast of the S10 market back in the late 90's, early '00's, this feels VERY similar to the bare bones pickup that crowd would buy and then customize to the moon. Some went "pro touring" with big motor and suspension mods, others went drag racing, others went towards the "lowrider" look. Airbagged suspension, super low ride heights, wild paint (wraps now), absurd interior mods......all started on that 4cyl/5spd reg cab short bed chassis. I bought my '00 S10 on Black Friday in '99. Exact same formula, and it cost $12k at the time. That $12k then is $23.5k now, so, honestly, the pricing is right in line as well. That S10 had manual windows and locks, A/C and a CD player. I also paid a small premium for the ZQ8 sport suspension setup. Otherwise it was about as basic as it gets, almost a direct analog to the slate.

I'm really excited to see if this takes off or flops. Lots of interesting concepts floating around. I'm gonna sit on the "glass half full" side this time.

The difference here is that (currently) you can't swap in a V8 to these. And if you did, CARB would send it's death squads after you most likely.

The other difference is it wasn't totally out of touch to think that a young guy/gal could buy a new truck and make ends meet like that. That's very much less the case now.

A few other weird things about these. They're not painted. They're vinyl wrapped only. They've got a lot of options for like, decals and stuff like that. Seems like they're applying the gaming micro transactions model to the car, lol. Their configuration tool didn't show any pricing,. It doesn't come with speakers, and it appears like you're supposed to use your phone as the screen and radio and everything. I wonder how they're satisfying the federal requirement for a backup camera.

I think ultimately few people will opt for the really base base trucks. How much the upgrades to add "the basics" cost is going to be important. If they start getting into the 30s... I think it's gonna be a tough sell.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

I thought it seemed like a cool concept if the base vehicle was worth it, but at 150miles and 2WD, it's not.

I gotta think they will offer a AWD version, and it sounds like they may even offer it as an upgrade. For boaters it’s not great, for the local contractor this should be perfect.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

The difference here is that (currently) you can't swap in a V8 to these. And if you did, CARB would send it's death squads after you most likely.

The other difference is it wasn't totally out of touch to think that a young guy/gal could buy a new truck and make ends meet like that. That's very much less the case now.

A few other weird things about these. They're not painted. They're vinyl wrapped only. They've got a lot of options for like, decals and stuff like that. Seems like they're applying the gaming micro transactions model to the car, lol. Their configuration tool didn't show any pricing,. It doesn't come with speakers, and it appears like you're supposed to use your phone as the screen and radio and everything. I wonder how they're satisfying the federal requirement for a backup camera.

I think ultimately few people will opt for the really base base trucks. How much the upgrades to add "the basics" cost is going to be important. If they start getting into the 30s... I think it's gonna be a tough sell.

I thought the same, pay to play model. How many actually true barebones models will be made? Are they all made to order? Do you order it off Amazon and pick your options?

I really like the modular idea though. As a broke teen you get a basic truck. Grandma can buy you power windows for Christmas. Save up some cash and now I can add a 12” screen. Etc

 

[2kwik4u]

The difference here is that (currently) you can't swap in a V8 to these. And if you did, CARB would send it's death squads after you most likely.

Most guys I knew didn't swap a V8 either. Only the "rich old guys" did that. I put almost 200k miles on that little 4cyl because that's what my budget was.

The other difference is it wasn't totally out of touch to think that a young guy/gal could buy a new truck and make ends meet like that. That's very much less the case now.

Even with some modification cash thrown in there. This is still significantly under the average new car price. I think that's around $42k now, so we're talking about $25k base, plus $10k in "mods", and we're still only at $35k. Again, this is pretty close price parity for that S10 from the turn of the century.

Yea, I said turn of the century referring to something I did.

A few other weird things about these. They're not painted. They're vinyl wrapped only. They've got a lot of options for like, decals and stuff like that. Seems like they're applying the gaming micro transactions model to the car, lol. Their configuration tool didn't show any pricing,. It doesn't come with speakers, and it appears like you're supposed to use your phone as the screen and radio and everything. I wonder how they're satisfying the federal requirement for a backup camera.

I think ultimately few people will opt for the really base base trucks. How much the upgrades to add "the basics" cost is going to be important. If they start getting into the 30s... I think it's gonna be a tough sell.

Backup camera is in the instrument panel. Saw that in a video review. I like the premise of puting a cheap tablet in there as the app connected "screen". Sure takes a ton of cash and risk out of it, and lets everyone add their own flavor.

I think $40k and down is a win, even with some modification cash in there.

 

[Bluewater272]

I gotta think they will offer a AWD version, and it sounds like they may even offer it as an upgrade. For boaters it’s not great, for the local contractor this should be perfect.

I heard they may offer that as well, but that won't address the range issue. I think customizing the interior and exterior with accessories is a different animal than asking the end user to install a new powertrain to the front axle and do the high voltage connection. Anyhoo, that was just my personal anecdote, I think this thing could be useful for local contractors for sure. I also think we're going to find out that the number of people who claim they'd love a tiny pickup truck with roll up windows much smaller than expected.

Watched a video on it with the wife over the weekend, and she remarked that while it's a neat idea, she'd prefer to have that level of customization from the factory. Lots of people who are going to hate their self-induced rattletrap when they go to install the power window motors and don't put it back together correctly. Count me as a curious spectator.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

I also think we're going to find out that the number of people who claim they'd love a tiny pickup truck with roll up windows much smaller than expected.

Agreed. People like to talk but let's see if they buy it. It could be real tempting if it had some good towing and gets under 17k with a federal rebate. People pay more than that for golf carts and ATVs. Would be a nice side car to putz around town and beat on for Home Depot trips. The expectation is so low it'd be hard not to surpass expectations.

 

[BlkGS]

Most guys I knew didn't swap a V8 either. Only the "rich old guys" did that. I put almost 200k miles on that little 4cyl because that's what my budget was.



Even with some modification cash thrown in there. This is still significantly under the average new car price. I think that's around $42k now, so we're talking about $25k base, plus $10k in "mods", and we're still only at $35k. Again, this is pretty close price parity for that S10 from the turn of the century.

Yea, I said turn of the century referring to something I did.



Backup camera is in the instrument panel. Saw that in a video review. I like the premise of puting a cheap tablet in there as the app connected "screen". Sure takes a ton of cash and risk out of it, and lets everyone add their own flavor.

I think $40k and down is a win, even with some modification cash in there.

I get your points, I just think that new cars are increasingly out of reach for the market they're aiming for. Of the younger people at my work, who have good jobs and fairly low cost of living, none buy brand new cars. They're all buying used. Even most of the "adults" I know buy lightly used cars. The only one I know who routinely buys new cars is my lawyer buddy with a pharmacist wife, they both bought Hondas new this year (him a mod grade pilot off-road model and her a basic ass CRV).

I agree about the tablet thing. I think there's a sizeable market for entry level cars that are BYOD. Why have car play and whatever so you can use your phone on the screen when you could just have your phone/tablet be the car's screen?

 

[BlkGS]

Agreed. People like to talk but let's see if they buy it. It could be real tempting if it had some good towing and gets under 17k with a federal rebate. People pay more than that for golf carts and ATVs. Would be a nice side car to putz around town and beat on for Home Depot trips. The expectation is so low it'd be hard not to surpass expectations.

Unfortunately it's 28k without the government subsidized credit. And it's unlikely that price is going to go down.

 

[2kwik4u]

I get your points, I just think that new cars are increasingly out of reach for the market they're aiming for. Of the younger people at my work, who have good jobs and fairly low cost of living, none buy brand new cars. They're all buying used. Even most of the "adults" I know buy lightly used cars. The only one I know who routinely buys new cars is my lawyer buddy with a pharmacist wife, they both bought Hondas new this year (him a mod grade pilot off-road model and her a basic ass CRV).

I agree about the tablet thing. I think there's a sizeable market for entry level cars that are BYOD. Why have car play and whatever so you can use your phone on the screen when you could just have your phone/tablet be the car's screen?

That's just state of the market things. Bigger picture issues of pay not keeping up with inflation. Everythings expensive now, and new cars are no different.

Hits harder when you want basic transportation and aren't an enthusiast willing to divert play money over to the transportation budget.

Much larger conversations to be had surrounding that topic for certain.