DRIVE Neutral Steering Assist - 2024 and newer

[TommyMcK]

You can correct that reverse by making some small adjustments to the linkage on the buckets.

Actually, on the DriveX boats you can't (at least according to the service manual). It involves a calibration process using YDS. If you simply adjust the buckets it evidently messes up the servo control.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Actually, on the DriveX boats you can't (at least according to the service manual). It involves a calibration process using YDS. If you simply adjust the buckets it evidently messes up the servo control.

Seems weird that would be the case.. I’m talking about making an adjustment of a few mm’s, that’s all it takes to go from a rear or front bias to neutral. On my boat it’s like 1/2 to 1 revolution of the connector.

 

[TommyMcK]

Seems weird that would be the case.. I’m talking about making an adjustment of a few mm’s, that’s all it takes to go from a rear or front bias to neutral. On my boat it’s like 1/2 to 1 revolution of the connector.

I didn't actually try it, so I can't say for sure that it doesn't work...just the procedure outlined in the service manual says not to do it. There enough things that cause the BCU to lose its mind that I'm hesitant to try it.

 

[Madman]

I have both a 23 222xd in Maryland and a 24 255xd in Florida. My comments are all based on my ;24. Your observations are consistent with mine. When you are in the middle of your lake, though may not realize it, when you are in neutral, your boat is likely moving slightly in reverse.

Neutral steering assist is something different. It is meant to duplicate the fin that doesn't exist on our boats and give you steering control when moving forward but not under power. It only impacts control when you are moving forward at 6 kts or more.

On my '24 255. when in neutral, the gates are slightly in reverse, which explains the controls

Actually, one of the first things I noticed about this boat is that neutral is actually neutral. When we’re coming off the lake, I drop the wife off, move away from the dock and tidy up the deck (as long as it’s not windy) while she gets the trailer. The boat just sits there. I definitely couldn’t do that with our 2010.

I could be wrong, but I really feel this is a programming issue. In my mind, there’s nothing normal about a boat that responds opposite of the driver’s input. It doesn’t make sense and doesn’t align with what Yamaha says about the feature. I guess we’ll just have to see what Yamaha has to say. Worse case scenario… they fix the damn off button! At least then, I could get back to my old docking and recovery procedures!

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I didn't actually try it, so I can't say for sure that it doesn't work...just the procedure outlined in the service manual says not to do it. There enough things that cause the BCU to lose its mind that I'm hesitant to try it.

Okay, can you post a picture of the service manual procedure please ?

I was chatting with @drewkaree tonight about this issue and we both think that there is only the throw or position of the electric actuator and its range motion for the computer to see, there is no sensor on the bucket to let the computer know what position the bucket actually is in relative to the opening of the jet pump. So, if you were to make small adjustments to the actuator rod adjustment right at the bucket in search of a better neutral there should be no problem.

Further, there are more than likely hall sensors within the actuators that measure the current flow of the bucket actuator, and if the current is too high, E.G. there is sand or grit in the bucket keeping it from moving freely enough, it will cease trying to move the actuator to keep from damaging it, and will throw a code alerting you that there is a problem.

 

[Neutron]

Okay, can you post a picture of the service manual procedure please ?

I was chatting with @drewkaree tonight about this issue and we both think that there is only the throw or position of the electric actuator and its range motion for the computer to see, there is no sensor on the bucket to let the computer know what position the bucket actually is in relative to the opening of the jet pump. So, if you were to make small adjustments to the actuator rod adjustment right at the bucket in search of a better neutral there should be no problem.

Further, there are more than likely hall sensors within the actuators that measure the current flow of the bucket actuator, and if the current is too high, E.G. there is sand or grit in the bucket keeping it from moving freely enough, it will cease trying to move the actuator to keep from damaging it, and will throw a code alerting you that there is a problem.

There is a magnet sensor on the end of each gear inside the actuator assembly. I have taken them apart to replace parts inside. So any adjustments on the nozzles or buckets wont effect the sensor. What could cause a problem like @TommyMcK stated would be if the bucket had resistance from the thrust when it was in movement.
There is a relearn procedure after any repairs or services done to the pumps and should be performed afterwards. And its done with the engine running

 

[drewkaree]

There is a magnet sensor on the end of each gear inside the actuator assembly. I have taken them apart to replace parts inside. So any adjustments on the nozzles or buckets wont effect the sensor. What could cause a problem like @TommyMcK stated would be if the bucket had resistance from the thrust when it was in movement.
There is a relearn procedure after any repairs or services done to the pumps and should be performed afterwards. And its done with the engine running

Is the relearn done to recalibrate the range of motion then, or is it to teach the computer the position of those magnet sensors?

It sounds similar to my car on startup, where it moves the headlights to do a self-test of the active leveling function, only, in the case of the boat, it would be determining the position of neutral.

I think I'm missing how all these things come together, and trying to grasp what's going on.

 

[Neutron]

Is the relearn done to recalibrate the range of motion then, or is it to teach the computer the position of those magnet sensors?

It sounds similar to my car on startup, where it moves the headlights to do a self-test of the active leveling function, only, in the case of the boat, it would be determining the position of neutral.

I think I'm missing how all these things come together, and trying to grasp what's going on.

I dont know what the actual function of the relearn procedure ant what it relearns 100%. I assume from what it does after you hit "start" it moves from the Neutral position slowly up then slowly down, then fast up and down and its complete. It must record the stops in reference to the magnets and sets it to the bcu.
Funny thing is when looking through the parts diagrams for these new boats, nothing is available for the bucket control.
Seems a little worrisome

 

[anmut]

Reading through this posts makes me appreciate the simple cable system I have on my boat...

 

[jacoviii]

Its 100% due to the new revers buckets. the old ones were part of the nozzle. The new one is stationary. This changes how the water is directed. Vs the older units.

 

[drewkaree]

Its 100% due to the new revers buckets. the old ones were part of the nozzle. The new one is stationary. This changes how the water is directed. Vs the older units.

This is some wtf type of new info! Please explain this some more, as I haven't heard this anywhere else, and judging from the replies (or lack of, in this regard), this hasn't been sussed out previously

This sounds like it necessarily requires the NOZZLE to be the movable piece of the puzzle, unless there's more in the explanation to flesh this out

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

The red arrows are pointing to where you put the wrenches to make fine adjustments to the bucket position. I’m sure there is either a measure or a jig that is used on that connector arm to set the distance. But, as you can see it has the ability to be adjusted.


The blue arrows is pointing to the actuator arm that is connected to the actuator. As mentioned b @Neutron above, there is an internal magnet sensor(s) in the actuator to allow the BCU to know where the actuator is in its travel, once outside of the actuator the BCU has no idea where the bucket is. So if you are having a bit of creep one direction or the other, the connector rod can be adjusted in our out to change the bucket position over the nozzle.

You could start out by measuring both rods, write the measurements down! Then get in the boat on the water and start one engine, see what the boat does, does it go forward or back wards. Make sure to go into forward, then neutral, then reverse, then back to neutral to make sure the action is consistent.

Then do the same for the other engine. Then you know where to start with your adjustments.

I’ve done this on my boat several times…. I’ve tested several different impellers with different pitch, and those impellers produce a different neutral setting because of the different pitch and the amount of thrust its generating..

 

[drewkaree]

I'm getting a new appreciation, and an education, about the changes of this system. Looking at @FSH 210 Sport's pics, it's not a static position for the buckets, it's a difference in the flow pattern, and how the actuator is now a hydraulic system, vs the cables of older systems.

I can only imagine the nightmare that saltwater use adds to the equation, with all the moving parts.

@anmut, I couldn't agree more with your post. I have a feeling I'm going to be learning on the fly about these, and I'm trying to figure out how these work, at the same time I'm working on my excuse for not wanting to help my friend with his boat!

 

[jacoviii]

I'm getting a new appreciation, and an education, about the changes of this system. Looking at @FSH 210 Sport's pics, it's not a static position for the buckets, it's a difference in the flow pattern, and how the actuator is now a hydraulic system, vs the cables of older systems.

I can only imagine the nightmare that saltwater use adds to the equation, with all the moving parts.

@anmut, I couldn't agree more with your post. I have a feeling I'm going to be learning on the fly about these, and I'm trying to figure out how these work, at the same time I'm working on my excuse for not wanting to help my friend with his boat!

It is nor hydraulic. There is a servo / step motor in the stern hull on the other side of the blue arrow FHS210 marked.

If it wasn't for these new servos i would have switched our '22 255xd to the new style buckets. I like how the steering nozzles are just nuzzles.

 

[TommyMcK]

The boat and manual are in Florida, and I'm not. @FSH 210 Sport is right that you can adjust the shit rod. There are two lock nuts (one of them is reverse threaded) and you adjust it by rotating the rod itself. I dunno, maybe you are right in that the system doesn't know where the bucket is in space.... It wasn't (and still isn't) clear to me that the sensor is strictly from the servo, and maybe that's true.

My recollection is that they wanted you to have the servo in the neutral position to check the distance between two marks, and that you needed YDS to do that with the boat unpowered. If the goal is to use trial and error by adjusting the shift rod with the buckets up, I suppose that would work based on what is said above about the sensors.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

The boat and manual are in Florida, and I'm not. @FSH 210 Sport is right that you can adjust the shit rod. There are two lock nuts (one of them is reverse threaded) and you adjust it by rotating the rod itself. I dunno, maybe you are right in that the system doesn't know where the bucket is in space.... It wasn't (and still isn't) clear to me that the sensor is strictly from the servo, and maybe that's true.

My recollection is that they wanted you to have the servo in the neutral position to check the distance between two marks, and that you needed YDS to do that with the boat unpowered. If the goal is to use trial and error by adjusting the shift rod with the buckets up, I suppose that would work based on what is said above about the sensors.

Well, YDS or not, if the boat is creeping one way or another excessively then adjusting that little tie rod by running the engines one at time in the water to determine where the adjustment is needed, one engine / bucket may be fine and it’s the other that’s making it move at idle.

As @Neutron explained the BCU uses magnets inside the actuator to determine its position, and more than likely a calibration sequence to find its center position, everything that’s attached to the arm outside the hull is beyond the vision of the BCU and relies on measurements based on the neutral point of the actuator itself. There’s nothing on the bucket to tell the BCU anything….